The 300th Episode! – Ep. 300

Welcome to the Accumulating Wealth podcast. I’m Judson Crawford. And I’m Hunter Satterfield. We are CPAs, wealth advisors, and partners at CWA, a financial services firm here to help you navigate the decisions you face every day. And today’s a big one. We’re celebrating the 300th episode of the Accumulating Wealth podcast. 

300 episodes means hundreds of market conversations, planning takeaways, guest interviews, lessons learned, and somehow plenty of opinions we were confident enough to put out there on the internet. And today we’re going to look back at some favorite moments from the show, reflect on what has changed since episode one, and see if any early life clues explain why Hunter and I became, well, us. Whether you’ve been with us from the beginning or you’re jumping in somewhere around episode 300, we are glad you’re here. I see you, Mom. Let’s get into it 

Well, Hunter, here we are, 300th episode. I don’t know that either of us imagined that we’d get to 300 episodes. Not with that attitude. That’s true. I definitely knew 500 was coming. Yeah. Yeah, no, 300’s a lot. Especially because back in the day, listeners, if you don’t know, like, we started recording with, like, a boom mic in our office, our old offices, and then we went to, like, an actual recording studio because we thought we were so professional. 

But then we had to do, like, five at a time. Yeah, all at once. Yeah. And we couldn’t record when things were, like, breaking news, and now of course we’ve got the studio at the office, which is awesome. So anyway, yeah, it’s been a fun adventure. We have a sign here in the office for those that are not on YouTube that says almost 300,000 listens, 62 five-star reviews, 55 YouTube videos, and 23 fart coin mentions. 

23 seems low, but- I kind of feel like it should be more. Yeah honestly, I do too. So, fart coin, fart coin, fart coin. There’s 28. Maybe AI didn’t get that right. Yeah. I was thinking back to, sort of the why of why we started this, and from Cain Watters’ standpoint, we’ve always tried to get information out there to our clients. 

In fact, if you look in our podcast room, which clients, you’re always welcome to come into our podcast room, but if you look in our podcast room, we have tapes and CDs of information that Cain Watters used to send back in the ’80s and ’90s. And so, I think this was just another iteration of how we get information out to people, right? 

Yeah, it was just the modern-day version of what Darryl was doing years ago, and we, unlike so many o- I’m not faulting anybody out there in the industry for podcasting, but we’ve, other than your stupid deodorant commercial that you tried to throw on me that one time, we’ve never wanted that. Like, the whole point of what we believe in as a firm at our very core is just educating people, and I think that’s why we did it, and it’s been super fun, especially because folks have wanted us to be more outgoing with our personalities and whatnot because they say it’s way more fun when they’re on the spin cycle or doing jazzercise while they’re listening to us. 

I’m sorry that you still have anger over the deodorant commercial. Oh, I don’t. It was a high-level moment on this podcast. No, but when we record episode 600, I’m still going to mention it, so. That’s fine. You may get another commercial at some point then. 

Well, one of the things I think we have to say is, for those of you that listen every week, amazing, thank you so much. Keep the recommendations on things you want to hear about. We’re super appreciative of you, and we love meeting you when you’re in the office, so always come by and say hi and give us feedback on how poorly we’re doing, but also how awesome we’re doing. So. And share it with your friends, and if you don’t make it to the end of every podcast, that’s when we drop some of our best moments. 

But we also ask for reviews at the end of every podcast, so if you love us and you’ve been listening for a long time, leave us a review, because it’s one of the only things that makes me feel warm at night. That’s right. 

But today, not only do we have some fun guests you already teased maybe in the intro on, but we actually have one in the recording studio. Producer Erin is going to join us today. Ba-ba-dum. You’ve heard her voice before. But usually, yes. Producer Erin, you’re awesome. Thank you for 300 episodes. You rock. Thank you. I’ve been here from the beginning with you guys. That’s right, all the way back to the boom mic days. So I’m pretty excited. I feel like Erin, in her head right now, has the Billy Madison, “I’m dumber for listening to all of this for 300 times.” 

I’ve learned some stuff. Good. Yeah. I take notes. She’s learned five things in 300 episodes. That’s what she told me. And we’ve got editor KelsieAnn here, too. Nice. KelsieAnn, as always, it’s good to have you, too. And y’all have… I hate these things when we get surprises. I don’t like surprises. 

Yeah, I don’t either. And so- I don’t have to eat anything. I have a piece of chocolate cake in front of me, which I’m appreciative of. Yep. No food. Phew. This episode’s going to be fun. I know you guys always do a lot of work to prep for the episode. So today, we decided you didn’t have to do any work. 

We would bring on some of your fans, some of your favorite listeners, and even maybe a hater that’s going to jump on the show later. Can’t wait for the hater. I know. It’s like Dan. Several. Judson tried to guess a lot of people, and we’re not going to tell. We’ll find out at the end. But with the opening surprise, we do have a handful of clients that are your favorite listeners, and one of them actually had a few questions that he wants to ask you guys. So, let’s go. 

Congratulations, guys. 300th episode. Pretty impressive, especially given that Hunter hasn’t kicked Judson off yet. This is Eckley from Beckley, West Virginia. I really enjoy the humor and information. You guys somehow keep an eggheaded dentist like me interested and hold my short attention span every time. 

But I do have three questions. Number one, what percent of episodes does the bourbon cabinet get opened? 

Well, we don’t often. We don’t while we’re recording, folks. We are responsible and we don’t do things like that. However, the bourbon cabinet is in the recording studio, and oftentimes people are walking by, peeking in, saying, “How can I get in there faster?” Yeah. So, I don’t think it’s technically ever been opened by us. 

This iced tea that I’m drinking is not spiked- Yeah … I guess is the answer to the question, Brett. Yeah not during. It’s happened before. Yes. It’s happened before but not often during. Now, adjacent to the bourbon cabinet, we have the candy cabinet, and that one is opened 99.9% of episodes. Yeah, final answer, because Judson can’t have… he can’t do an episode without his gummy bears- That’s right … and I can’t without my peanut butter M&Ms. So, there you go. That’s the answer there. 

Two, is it better to ask for permission or forgiveness in life and with taxes? 

I mean, we’re going to go specifically podcast. I’m always asking for forgiveness related to the podcast and things that I say. Related to taxes, I’m going to say we’re going to go on the permission and specifically your planner’s permission. I think this is… I mean, this is one where I just went a lot of different directions as the question was asked. 

Number one, Judson never asks permission. Everybody needs to hear that right now. He just says stuff and just pisses me off, like ever. So that’s number one. Everybody’s always like, “Hey man, do you know what’s coming from him?” No, is the answer. I’ve known him for 27 years and I’ve never known. I don’t know what’s coming. So that one’s for sure.  

Taxes, agreed permission. As a parent, also permission. So maybe I’m just a permission guy in general. Just ask for my permission please. That’s what I’m asking for, Judson. You got that for the next 300? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Permission slip’s going to be… AI’s going to generate that. 

And number three, if you had a million dollars to invest, what percent would you put in precious metals, oil, or fart coins? Congrats again, guys. Appreciate all you guys do for us. Have a great day. 

That is the 30th fart coin mention. I love it. It’s seven alone- I love it. Well done, Brett. Yeah, you think you got us over the 30 mark. Seven alone on this one episode. That’s pretty impressive. Judson, million bucks, what are you going with? 100% fart coin. I’m going to go with a 80/20 allocation between stocks and bonds, highly diversified between small, mid, and large caps, including international. Yeah. That’s my answer. Exactly. 

All right. But wait, we’ve got a few more questions from a few of your other favorite listeners. 

What’s up Hunter and Judson? This is Ryan, Amber and Colin Oakley. I think that hitting the 300th episode officially makes you guys a power couple. I would love to know which power couple you relate to most. Is it Batman and Robin? Jay-Z, Beyonce? W and Dick Cheney? 

It’s a great question. And I love the fact that we got both Amber and Colin as well. Indeed. These are very frequent guests at this point on the show. And I think, I mean, generally I think the office is going to answer your question, Ryan, that it’s Batman and Robin, as much as we maybe not like that. But I think that’s probably where our power couple goes. The question you have to answer for yourself is who’s Batman and who’s Robin? I disagree. I’m pretty sure that we’re Ace and Gary. 

Judson, Hunter. Hey guys, Fendy here. Poking around on the website, I saw Jetson wearing a sport coat. Who the hell did you steal that from? 

Men’s Wearhouse. So many questions. Men’s Wearhouse might… it’ll be like Al’s Formal Wear. You rent it for the day. Yeah, rent it for the day. The day that you need it. Well, I was going to say, if you’re watching us on YouTube, both Hunter and I dressed up for this podcast. I have less buttons, but we both dressed up. The best part about that Fendi is he was probably wearing a sport coat up top and Vans down below. That’s the standard outfit. It’s my version of the mullet. 

All right. Well, those were fun, but now we’re getting to some serious stuff. That’s my kind of thing, serious things. Yeah. Oof. Yeah, enough of this joking around. Thank goodness. This is actually where we get nervous. 

We really wanted to go back in time and really get to know you guys, and we felt like the best way that we could do that was to talk to your mamas. So, I got a chance to speak with each one of your mothers. They were so sweet. I actually really enjoyed my time, and I kind of want to be best friends with both of them. But we asked them some questions. We wanted to get to know them a little bit better, and we pulled out some of the highlights, just to give everyone a good sense of who you were when you were little and how it got to you today. 

All right. So, listeners, before these get played, couple things here. Number one, we did know that they were going to talk to the moms. Number two, we have no idea what the moms said, so this is going to be interesting. We didn’t prep them. Well, I did prep my mom because she just said, “Is it okay if I’m honest?” And I said, “Yes.” So that’s all I know. Number three, Pam and Vicky could not be more different in any way, and perhaps that’s how we turned out, Judson. Shocking, listeners, my mom is a CPA. Shocking. But yeah, this’ll be pretty fascinating. You’re nervous, aren’t you? I just have no idea. I have no idea. Okay. Well, we’ll see. 

I think maybe the most important question: how often do you listen to the Accumulating Wealth podcast? Well, I don’t catch all of them. And honestly, when I tune in, I kind of judge what the episode is about. There’s some that I don’t enjoy. When they get into super-duper complicated tax stuff, I get overwhelmed. 

I actually am a retired CPA, but things have changed so quickly and so fast that it’s beyond me. 

I didn’t, I guess I didn’t even need to say that she’s a CPA because she just said it herself. Yeah. But I thought she was going to go, “I don’t tune in for some of them because Judson’s an idiot.” That’s kind of what I thought she was going to go. I think that they cut off the part where she talked about how she really enjoys my humor. Your funny jokes? Yeah. 

No, because she just asked me, she had listened to one, I can’t remember which one it was, and she just said, “What did you do when he actually said that?” I was like, “Oh, he actually said it and I lost my mind.”  

So, since she was a listener, I kind of wanted to quiz her on an episode and make sure she really was a listener. So, I had one more thing I wanted to ask her. 

Do you ever listen to the 4th of July episode? Yes. And I honestly can picture Hunter with that bologna. I mean, he will try new things, but there are certain things that are just taboo, which are, like, ground-up meats to become other things, like hot dogs and bologna. But I, I mean, I was laughing out loud listening to that one. 

See, she does like the humor. Yeah. No, she was laughing at how much I despise it, but she knows… She trained me well. Of course I hate that stuff. It’s disgusting. Does she also? No. The Satterfield household growing up was very much like, “We’re going to have grilled chicken and salads,” and it’s just, like, right down the fairway. No, just bologna sandwich with American and mayo. Nope, that does not happen at all. 

All right. Now it’s Vicky’s turn. All right. Here we go. 

How often do you listen to the Accumulating Wealth podcast? I don’t. Go, Vicky, go. I do it once when he told me to, and so I am so sorry, but I don’t, and I hope I don’t hurt his feelers. As he used to say when he was a little boy, “You hurt my feelers.” So anyway, but he knows I love him. 

That one’s coming with us. The feelers is coming with us. I’m just telling you. You and I have got another 20 years together, buddy. Yeah, that one’s coming with us. I did. When I was a kid, I got my feelers hurt. Yeah, and that, I guess it doesn’t really surprise me that she doesn’t listen either. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It doesn’t surprise me either. Don’t worry, Mom, not upset. I sent her an episode after that, so I think she’s probably up to one. 

All right. So, once we got through that, I really wanted to learn a little bit more about you guys and figure out who you were as children. This is going to scare me. I know.  

So, if you had to describe Hunter in three words as a child, what would they be? Introvert, serious, loving. And what about now? I’d still put loving on there, the way he is with his family. And he keeps an eye on us. Goal-oriented and a Christian. 

There you go. That’s defining right there. Yeah. All very true. Very true. Good job, Mom. Nothing embarrassing there whatsoever. Love you, Mom. That’s awesome. 

All right, and what about Judson? If you had to describe Judson in three words as a child, what would those words be? Mischievous, funny, always funny, he was always funny, and generous. 

So, if you had to describe Judson in three words now, what would those words be? Devoted to a fault, faithful no matter what, and still generous. And maybe still a little mischievous? Oh, my goodness gracious. I think we taught from the get-go. He’s so funny. I love that he makes me laugh, and I should have said that. He makes me laugh. 

I thought she was going to say, like, fart coin, toot, but no. She held herself back. That was good. No, those were all accurate. Mischievous is correct, for sure, listeners. The generous one is great. I mean, it’s true. Yeah. I don’t know that I would’ve thought she would go there, but that’s, that’s very true. I appreciate it. 

They were all so sweet. All right. So now we got into some stories. So, I wanted some examples of what you were like as kids, so it could kind of give us some insight into how you got here. 

When I mentioned Hunter is an introvert as a child, most people that know him now would think that was laughable. But as his mom, I seriously think deep, deep, deep inside, he’s an introvert that has come out of his shell. One of the stories that really illustrates that is at his second birthday party. So, I always made a huge deal of the kids’ birthdays, and we had a big birthday party with friends and parents and family, and it was outside. 

And Hunter went and got on his rocking horse, the old-fashioned rocking horse that just goes back and forth, and he rode that thing all the way to West Texas because he didn’t like the attention being on him. So, if he was on the rocking horse, he could just tune everything out. 

We’re going to get him a rocking horse in the studio. I really wish I had a picture of it, really. That is a true story. Here’s what I want to know, is what is your current-day rocking horse? My car on the way home. Uh-huh. And when I was sitting on that rocking horse, I was probably telling, like, myself… I was probably counting, like, my baseball cards or something. But it was really, like, diversification, allocation. That’s exactly what I was telling myself, rocking myself to sleep. I wish these people would just leave. 

But it’s so funny, because you and I are on stage a lot at our Annual Meetings, you and I are on stage together at times, and you know this about me too, like, when I’m done on stage, I am done. Done. Like, done. I go to my hotel room and, like, just get on my rocking horse for the next hour. 100%. Yeah. I think we need a rocking horse here in the studio. That’s what I just said, Erin. 

I bet we can’t wait to hear what Judson has to say. Yeah. Well, he was, he was brilliant. Yeah, he was a performer. He was always a performer. Early on, we were in Houston, and we were at a large church there, and they did aa big Christmas pageant every year. And he started out as a shepherd boy and doing everything, and he was so happy doing those things, being on stage. And I mean, his picture in the paper, I still have that, and just adorable. 

And then I think it was just a year or two later that he was asked by the music director to please sing a solo, and he did. All I Want for Christmas … Only Want a Dog for Christmas or something like that. But he sang it to perfection. He got up every night and sang it, and yeah, in costume and all. That’s what he did. 

And you know what I didn’t get? Is a dog for Christmas. Damn it. I know. Yeah. Can you sing us the song now? I thought she was going to say- I actually remember the song shockingly. Sing it. No. I like how she was talking about you starting as a shepherd in the Christmas play, and now you’re like Santa Claus. That’s true. Yeah, it’s great. 

Thank you both, moms. Y’all are amazing for those stories. I don’t know that we could have picked two more different stories, which are both completely accurate. So First Baptist Church Houston, huge Christmas pageant, akin to anything you can imagine, where they brought in animals, they had horses, they had camels, they had goats and sheep, all this kind of stuff, right? 

The question that I have for you is how on earth did we go from you were a performer to, “I’m going to be a CPA”? I don’t know. Numbers. She said you were good at math. Yeah, I was always good at math. Okay. Well, there you go. 

When she used words to describe you, nowhere in there did she say smart. Yeah, I know. Well, I would actually have used, but I wouldn’t have used funny. It’s hidden. I wouldn’t have used funny. I would’ve just said mischievous, smart, and dumbass. Funny in my own mind. 

All right, before we move on, they each had sweet messages that they wanted to share with you guys. 

 I guess finally, if you could leave Hunter with one message as he celebrates the 300th episode, what would you say? 

I always knew you were a wonderful person, were going to grow into a wonderful adult, but you have surpassed me in what my thoughts were in terms of what you’ve accomplished, both as a professional, as a husband, as a father, and as a son. 

Oh dear, I’m going to need to go get on my rocking horse. I hate the attention already. And I don’t cry very often, so I’m not going to cry. I just want to go on my rocking horse right now. 

We’ll move to Judson really quickly then. Thank you. Yeah, let’s move on, please. Love you, Mom. You’re amazing. 

And finally, if you could leave Judson with one message as he celebrates the 300th episode, what would you like to say? 

Keep doing what you’re doing because you love it so much. You love the people you work with. You love what you do. You love being a daddy of three girls, a girl dad and you love helping people. So just keep on doing it. Keep on doing it and loving it and loving others, and my goodness gracious, you’ve already gone far, far in life. 

So, I love him so much, and I’m so proud of him. I can’t imagine him being any kinder and funnier, so I… The funny just gets me. I’m so grateful he’s funny, so… 

That’s very sweet, Vicky. I’m not as grateful about his funniness. He is. This is just an act for the podcast. She said, “Keep doing what you’re doing,” and I think we could list 10 things that I want you to keep doing and then about 40 that I want you to stop doing. You don’t mean it. I love you. 

So, Vicky and I had too much fun, and apparently there are some things that he was doing that he’s just kept doing as an adult. 

What’s one habit he had as a child that he still hasn’t outgrown? Walking around the house in his underwear. 

Oh, she’s not wrong. So, here’s the thing. I know we did the Batman, Robin, Ace, and Gary. I actually knew that about you. That’s so funny. Thank you for that, Vicky. Yep. Thanks, Mom. 

All right. That was fun, and let’s just keep some of those well wishes going. So we have a few of your other favorite clients. Not that you have favorites, but a few people that just had something that they wanted to say. 

This is John Wheeler from The Woodlands, Texas. Oh, no. Judson has been my financial guardian angel since, I think, 2007. I’ve always been a giant fan of Hunter’s too, and I would like to congratulate them on making it to episode three hundred with the podcast, which I’m a giant fan of. Let’s try to get this thing up to 500 or maybe 1,000. Let’s do that. 

This is Ryan, Amber and Colin Oakley. Congratulations on your 300th episode of the Accumulating Wealth podcast. Thank you all so much for letting us be a part of your journey. Congrats again, guys. And finally, Judson, you know that we’re living in a material world, and you, my friend, are a material girl. 

I am. Indeed. That one’s going to live forever, and it means he listens too, by the way. He listens to the end. Love you guys. Y’all rock, the Oakleys. And Wheeler, all of you down in the Woodlands. 

Judson, Hunter. Hey guys, Fendy here. Congrats on hitting 300 episodes. Quite a milestone. I think we’ve been with CWA since 2005. Started with Judson, Hunter, you were my first junior planner. Obviously, that title didn’t last too long. I would guess your combined prodigy chart has to be one of the largest. You guys are great and always treat Laura and I like family. The whole CWA team feels like family. We always have a great time at our annual consult, practical jokes, juvenile humor, sneaking super top-secret Fendy kits into the building with Ashley. Judson, watching you have to explain to another junior planner when he heard me call out, ” Nice out” in a very, let’s say, discreet location. Your response, “Yep, that’s Fendy.” But seriously, congrats, guys. 

One of my most searing memories that sums up CWA as a whole, and especially you two. It was the collapse of Lehman Brothers on September 15th, 2008.I was motoring up Lake Powell with the family on the houseboat, and the world was coming to the end. We were losing cell phone service, and we were going to be out for over a week with no contact. I randomly get service and call, and guess what? You answer. I frantically tell you I’m about to lose service. What do I need to do? How much more do I need to put away to make up for what’s coming? How does this affect my retirement plan? We just got it going. 

Your response, “Fendy, you’re good, man. Follow the plan. Keep doing what you’re doing. No more, no less. You’ll be fine.” You guys were calm, cool, collected, and confident in your process. Twenty years later, we’re about to enter the transition phase with you guys still leading the way. Thank you, guys. Congratulations. We love you both. We’re proud to call you family, friends, and advisors. Fred and Laura Fenderson.  

Nothing but love. Man, the best. No doubt. Nothing but love, y’all. Love you guys to death. Hope you’re on the boat listening to this.  

Hey, Hunter and Judson, it’s Eric Hall. I just wanted to congratulate you guys on the 300th episode of the Accumulating Wealth podcast. It’s a great podcast. I love listening to each episode, have been listening to it for a long time. I’ve been a client of Hunter’s since 2013. It’s been a great ride. I always appreciate the insights and advice. 

Cain Watters has meant so much to me over my career thus far, and it will continue to mean a lot. Hunter, I’m thankful that you have shown Beth that investing is important, so I don’t have to work till I’m 95, and I think Beth would appreciate that you have shown me that living in the moment is also important, so we’re not still driving our 20-year-old Subaru with 500,000 miles on it. But anyways, keep up the good work. You guys are awesome. Appreciate you guys. Thank you so much 

Feels good. Yeah, that one’s… I love that because as I’m listening to Eric, it’s like the following the journey of them over time is so cool, and same thing with Fendi, like just amazing. Yeah. 

There would be many more, but we couldn’t fit them all on this podcast. But while we were doing all these well wishes and stuff, we actually had another person that came up to us and kind of had something that they wanted to say. Oh, we love the haters. Yeah. Let’s go. 

Hunter, Judson, it is your favorite partner, Mason. That’s right, mason@cainwaters.com. Congrats on number 300. I’m sure y’all are busy celebrating. While y’all are out having fun, I’m just back here in my office answering emails still from all your listeners. 

So for the sake of my inbox, I feel like 300 is probably just a good number to go out on. And if y’all decide to keep this thing rolling, maybe we decide some new ones. We have some great other email addresses and some folks I would love to answer. Maybe a zane@cainwaters.com, maybe a scott@cainwaters.com. Even Jason Jones would love some emails, maybe jason@cainwaters.com. All right. Congrats on 300. Think about passing the torch on to somebody else. 

No. Sorry. Not going to happen. Sorry, buddy. Love you to death, man. Yep. Not going to happen. We appreciate the well wishes. For those that want to respond to that, you can respond to mason@cainwatters.com with all of your thoughts on his comment. Yeah, let him know how you feel about that, and if you have any questions on PPP loans. 

Just thinking about all this, I just want to thank the listeners, obviously, for giving us the opportunity to get to do what we do, not only on this podcast, but in our careers in general. Because, as my mom alluded to, thanks, Vicky, we do love what we do. 

And having the opportunity to get into y’all’s ears and homes and cars on a weekly basis really is an honor. And we just want to keep bringing good information to you guys. So, thank you for being dedicated listeners to us. Indeed. No matter all the crap I give Judson, I do love that we get to laugh together and tell jokes together but then bring you information that we hope helps you. 

So, we appreciate all the feedback and appreciate all the listens over the time, and that is why we’re going to continue doing it. We’re not stopping. Every week, we’re going to keep recording and giving you guys everything that we think is pertinent and the questions you have and whatnot. 

So, love the questions from the sort of the jokey questions on this podcast, but man, we always, always, always will take them. So please always drop those to us so we can get you guys where you’re at for the next 100. 

And you said we’ve known each other for 20 years earlier, bro. It’s been 25 years. So old. We are so old. But we don’t feel like it. We don’t sound like it. We’re really young at heart. No, I feel like it as I… we’re taking Ronnie to college again tomorrow for his sophomore year, doing the move thing for his apartment. I feel plenty old because he celebrated 20, which means he’s not even a teenager anymore. What the heck happened there, dude? That’s all right. My twins are entering first grade, which means that our emotional quotients are about equal this year, so we’re good. Yeah, it’s all good. Yeah. All right. Well, get us out of here, man. 

Well, the best way to keep up with this is to subscribe to this podcast. That way, you never have to miss an episode, and you can go back and listen to all the others. If you’re enjoying us so far, please leave us a review. If you have a question, comment, or suggestion for a future episode, drop us a line at cainwatters.com/wealth. We really do answer these, and we love hearing from you. 

And if you want to learn more about what we do when we’re not recording these episodes, visit cainwatters.com to see how we’re helping our almost 4,000 clients reach their long-term financial goals. Fart. Coin. Permission to stop recording? Permission.